22 WEEKS THE MOVIE IS BEING MADE

Abortion staff ignores
baby boy born alive?
Woman pleads for help with ‘Rowan’ after delivering son in clinic restroomPosted: April 25, 2005
1:00 am Eastern

By Ron Strom
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

A woman who was scheduled to have her 22-week-along pregnancy ended at a Florida abortion clinic instead delivered the baby alive in a restroom and says her pleading for help from medical staff went unheeded, even when an employee saw that the tiny boy was moving.

The mother, Angele, who asked that her last name not be used, is now considering legal action against the facility. She is being represented by Liberty Counsel, a nonprofit pro-life and religious-liberty legal organization.

The woman chose the EPOC Clinic of the Orlando Women’s Center in Orlando, Fla., because employees there had convinced her that her unborn baby would feel no pain during the procedure and because the “staff seemed caring,” Angele told WND.

WorldNetDaily obtained a narrative Angele wrote that describes the two days, April 1 and 2, she went to the clinic after traveling to Florida from her home state.

“I counseled with a pretty and petite younger black woman who has a small son,” Angele wrote of her first visit. “Her name began with an L. I do not remember her full name. She explained the process of laminaria insertion. I asked her other questions such as, will they inject saline or urea into the amniotic sac? I was concerned that it would hurt the baby as it generally (from what I’ve read) burns the skin and lungs. I expressed my concerns that he not suffer or feel anything.”

The purpose of inserting laminaria is to dilate the cervix overnight in preparation for the abortion. Angele explained she chose the “labor and delivery process” for her abortion “as opposed to partial birth or having to dismember the child to retrieve him from the uterus/birth canal.”

Angele, who is in her 30s, says she was given Valium “to relax me for the laminaria insertion.”

“The injection burned a lot as it went in. … The discomfort was distracting. I still felt the ‘lams’ as they were being inserted. Dr. Perper told me to relax my muscles and noted that my cervix was slightly soft. I asked him what that meant and he said it was good.”

Digoxin is a drug injected into an unborn baby to cause his or her heart to stop in preparation for what amounts to a stillborn birth. Angele says despite having asked for it, she did not receive the digoxin injection, which she surmises caused the baby to be born alive.

Referring to the digoxin injection, Angele told WND: “They didn’t do it.”

She says she overheard staff talking about “dig-ing” her – injecting the digoxin – but, after taking a sonogram initially and then quickly taking the machine to another room, the staff, she says, failed to return it to her room. A sonogram machine is used to guide the needle into the unborn baby’s heart.

Part of Angele’s concern prior to going to Florida was that the baby would be born alive, and she asked clinic personnel beforehand how that is handled.

“I wanted it to be as humane and painless as possible for my son,” she said, choking back tears. “They told me they would guide a needle directly into his heart and it would put him to sleep, and he wouldn’t feel anything.”

Harry Perper, M.D., is the doctor who inserted the laminaria, a man Angele described as “a very fast-moving, hyperactive type of person.”

Angele says the staff then gave her some medication to take early the next morning and told her to return the following day.

Wrote Angele: “My friend and I took a taxi back to our hotel. We rested up a bit, changed and walked to a nearby restaurant for dinner. That night, all night off and on I could feel the baby still moving. I told my friend this worried me. I remember thinking it must take time to slow down and stop his heart. I was still a little ‘out of it’ from the medicine and just figured I must have been mistaken about how the digoxin was supposed to work. He was still moving when I went to sleep. I was concerned and started to call the after-hours line, but again second-guessed myself.”

In the ‘delivery room’

The next day, Angele says, she took three pills meant to induce labor at 5 a.m. and another at 8 a.m. before arriving at the clinic shortly before 9.

“I waited outside, cramping and crying, for the clinic to open,” Angele explained. “My contractions were close. I had been having them for hours. I knocked repeatedly at the door. There was a burgundy truck in the parking lot. Ten to 15 minutes later, Debbie opened the door and let me in.

“I was directed to ‘the room.’ I had been there for a moment the day before and thought it to be a waiting room for family or driving companions. It had a leather sofa and a fabric sofa, both with a white blanket stretched across the seat cushions, a small television and a few magazines.”

However, noted Angele, “It was not a waiting area – it was the ‘delivery room.’ It was, of course, very cold.”


Baby Rowan

After being given a wet blanket and a heating pad, Angele says, she was told the doctor wouldn’t be in until 2 p.m. – “and that even if I had delivered by then I would need to stay until I could be examined.”

Wrote Angele: “My contractions became stronger and more frequent very rapidly. I called for [staff member] Violene, thinking it was time to be moved into another room and wanting to know if I could have anything for pain. She said that medication would stop the contractions and for me to stay right there and again, she would be back. I told her it was almost time; I could just tell, and she told me I was not at all ready. She left. I began to bleed.”

After going to the bathroom, Angele says, “I came back to the sofa, (they both really smelled awful), wrapped up in the wet and sour-smelling blanket, then decided it was better without it. I rocked back and forth on my hands and knees, trying to hold the heating pad to my stomach to both relieve the pain and try to stay warm. I was looking down and saw little smears and spots of dried blood on the floor and an old cotton ball with blood on it by the fabric-covered sofa across from me. Noticing how dirty it was and how no one was in the room or even nearby in the hallway began to make me nervous and uncomfortable. I went right back to the powder room and began to try to push a lot. I thought it might help since I was told I was not nearly ready to deliver.”

Crying out in pain, Angele says she could feel a contraction coming: “In one agonizing push, I felt and heard something come out. Then immediately another push. I was weak. I just held my head in my hands for a moment. Then I decided to stand up. I looked. There was my baby, the whitish cord and what I thought surely must be the placenta.

“I started sobbing and lay down in the floor. I stared and stared at my son. I was horrified that I had just had him in a commode.”

Born alive

Angele explained what happened next to her and her boy, whom she named Rowan:

 

His right leg moved. He curled up a bit like he was cold; I screamed for Violene! No one came. I managed to get to the doorway, pants down, blood everywhere and yelled again. I went back to my baby. I heard her say she’d be right there.I showed her Rowan, told her he was alive and moving and to call 911! She took a quick look, said he’s not moving now and she’d be back to take care of things while walking out. I called her again. I was touching Rowan softly and he moved again. I called her back. Rowan jumped, I think startled by the loud sound of my calling for help. I showed her that he was moving and alive. I begged her to hurry and call 911, now!

She said for me to lie down and she would get her supervisor. No one came.

I continued to try to caress and comfort my son by rubbing his back, tummy and chest. I stroked his precious little head and kept telling him I loved him and we would be OK. I was afraid to move him because I did not want to do anything that might end up hurting him. I pushed my pinky into his little hand and his fingers curled around me. Still no one was coming. I was terrified but trying not to let him know I was scared. I kept telling him what a beautiful son he was and that we were going to be safe soon.

Angele says she then figured out a way to call for help.

“I left Rowan for two seconds, grabbed the phone, jumped back into the bathroom to be with him, calling my girlfriend ‘Sharon’ at the same time,” she wrote. “I told her Rowan was alive and no one was helping us to please call an ambulance to the clinic immediately and hung up.

“I stayed beside Rowan talking to him, telling him how strong he was being and how proud I was of him. I told him God must really want us to be together for him to make it through everything he had just been through and that Mommy was so sorry but so happy to have a chance to love him. I told him he was a strong little miracle and that I couldn’t wait for him to meet his brother and sister. I just kept touching him, trying to warm him with my hands and talking to him so he would not feel any more afraid than he already must.

“Then Rowan stopped moving.”

At that point, Angele says, she “rocked him and prayed” before bathing the baby and cutting the umbilical cord.

Wrote Angele: “He was perfect, slightly pale and a little translucent. His eyebrows were pale but wide and well-defined. You could see little hairs on his face and head. He had the tiniest little fingernails and toenails. I noticed they already had a little bit of growth. His mouth was lovely. He was this perfectly formed one pound, one ounce human being. He was beautiful. He had been so strong.

“I wrapped him in [a] blue pad instead of one of the wet blankets. I just kept kissing him and telling him I loved him so much. I told him I was sorry I couldn’t get anyone to help us and I was so sorry for ever coming here.”

At that point, Angele says, staff member Debbie came in a demanded to have the baby. Angele refused.

“Oddly, she came back within two or three minutes,” Angele wrote. “She was more irritated and insistent than before. I was irritated that she was rushing me and that she did not seem to be in such a hurry when Rowan was alive. Where was she when Violene was supposedly going to get her and we needed her help? She asked again to take him. I flatly refused her. I could tell she was angry. I did not care. I told her that I expected her to leave me alone so I could finish praying with Rowan and that we needed privacy.”

Angele says she then went back in the bathroom and blocked the door firmly with her back so no one could bother her.

Wrote Angele: “I was staring at my son, crying softly and noticing the dried blood on the walls. I felt so bad. I felt so helpless. I had been so wrong to come here and yet I felt so lucky to have my son born alive. I wanted to fix and change everything once I saw his precious little face and body. All we needed was someone to get us to safety. I felt so awful that the only thing I could do was tell him we were going to be OK and that would be together forever, that we were strong and a good team.

“I wondered if babies went immediately to heaven. Are they immediately given wisdom, perspective and understanding? Could Rowan see that I loved him? Could he see that I wanted him with me and that I tried to help him stay with me? Could he see everything that happened while he was here?”

Angele’s friend “Sharon” arrived and reportedly agreed that Rowan “was a gorgeous little baby.”

Surprisingly, Angele said, the police came to the clinic instead of an ambulance.

“The police asked if I would like them to take Rowan to the funeral home,” she wrote. “I told them that I had made previous arrangements for him to be picked up by the funeral director.”

Angele says her friend overheard a staff member saying she did not see the baby move, a contention that angered the distressed mother.

“I saw Violene one more time, and I was furious after what ‘Sharon’ told me,” Angele wrote. “I spoke to her telling her how little I appreciated them telling the police my child was not alive. I stared hard at her and said, ‘Violene you saw him moving. That is when you were supposedly going to get your manager and “take care of it.” You stayed away until Rowan died. I don’t care what you say, you and I both know he was very much alive. We know the truth.’ She said nothing and turned away.

“They gave ‘Sharon’ a bag with my medicine and we left. Oddly enough, they no longer needed me to be seen by the doctor at 2 p.m.,” Angele wrote, saying the staff just wanted her “to leave as quickly as possible.”

‘I didn’t see any other way out’

Angele, who is divorced, is the mother of a son and daughter.

It took weeks of counseling before she made the decision to have an abortion, she explained. “I didn’t see any other way out,” Angele told WND.

Angele explained that she researched the various second-trimester abortion methods to determine which would be best in her situation.

“Although ‘labor and delivery’ is most difficult on the mother,” she explained, “it seemed to be the best choice for my son. And it would allow the opportunity for my son to be born whole, stillborn, and I could hold him and grieve him and have him cremated.”

Angele says she named her baby ahead of time and made a lot of plans because, she said, “I wanted him to go from my tummy to heaven in the most dignified way possible.”

A Christian, Angele told WND: “I chose Bible verses for his service and everything.”

Angele says she wants the government to do an autopsy on Rowan’s body, but that the local coroner refuses to do so. She says she doesn’t have the $3,500 it would cost for her to pay for an autopsy.

“It’s important to my cause to prove that Rowan was alive in order to stop this from happening again,” she said, noting an autopsy could provide such evidence.

In the meantime, Rowan’s body is at a funeral home in cold storage.

Angele says she is going public with her story and considering legal action “so this doesn’t happen to anybody else.”

Remembering her experience after Rowan’s birth, Angele said: “The first two times I told Violene to call 911, I thought she would. It hadn’t crossed my mind that she wouldn’t. … It finally dawned on me: They’re not going to help me save my son.” That’s when Angele called her friend and asked her to call 911.

Speaking of her Christian faith, Angele said, “I know you’re thinking, ‘How can a Christian possible make that decision?’ – but I think it happens a lot more often than you think.”

James S. Pendergraft, M.D., is the founder of the Orlando Women’s Center and is known in pro-life communities as the “Tiller of Florida” because he performs late-term abortions. George Tiller, a well-known late-term abortion doctor in Witchita, Kan., is referred by some activists as “Tiller the Killer.”

Pendergraft was convicted of extortion in February 2001 and he served seven months behind bars. The conviction later was overturned, but last year, as part of the same legal battle, Pendergraft conceded in federal court that he impeded justice by supporting a business associate he knew was lying.

Bogus claim?

Mathew Staver is president and general counsel of Liberty Counsel.

“We’re representing the mother and are working with the state of Florida,” Staver told WND. “We’re looking at various legal avenues.”

Staver mentioned that in Florida, the Legislature is considering bills to regulate abortion clinics in the state – “and we’re going to be providing some of this information to some legislators.”

Liberty Counsel’s ultimate goal, he said is to “shut this clinic down.”

Staver says he took several photos of Rowan’s body in the funeral home, commenting that he “looked like a perfectly healthy little boy.”

Added Staver: “It’s an amazing thing that this is what happens.”

A receptionist at the EPOC Clinic referred WND to Marti McKenzie, who says she handles public relations for the facility. McKenzie discounted the complaint without hearing any of the details or the nature of the incident.

After being told Liberty Counsel was representing Angele, McKenzie advised WND: “I wouldn’t pay too much attention to that if I were you. [Liberty Counsel is] always ready to jump all over anybody if they can come up with a reason if they’re in the abortion business. I mean, that’s really bogus.”

McKenzie was not interested in receiving any information about the complaint and said she would contact WorldNetDaily if and when she had a response to any legal action taken against the clinic.

Federal enforcement

On Friday, the Bush administration said it would begin enforcing the 3-year-old Born-Alive Infant Protection Act, which requires doctors to attempt to keep alive a baby that survives an abortion.

HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt said in a statement: “Congress had received testimony that some infants who had been born alive after unsuccessful abortions were left to die. … The Act reaffirms the legal principle that all infants born alive are entitled to the full protection of the law. That is a principle I will vigorously uphold as secretary. … We took the first of these educational steps today by notifying relevant entities that we aggressively enforce federal laws that protect born-alive infants. We issued clear guidance that withholding medical care from an infant born alive may constitute a violation of the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act and the Medicare Conditions of Participation.”

The 2002 act established that in all federal laws and regulations, the words “person,” “human being,” “child” and “individual” include “every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.” The law also defines “born alive” as meaning “the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section or induced abortion.”

Erik Stanley, chief counsel at Liberty Counsel told WND: “We are looking at the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act as an option for enforcement” in the baby Rowan case.

 

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39 Comments

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39 responses to “22 WEEKS THE MOVIE IS BEING MADE

  1. Scopia

    I have a hard time having sympathy for this woman. She CHOOSE to kill her child!!

    • Scopia,

      The Movie doesn’t highlight “pitty” for her. It highlights her personal discovery that it isn’t just a fetus, but a living human being worthy of protection and help from the medical community. This movie highlights a secret of the abortion industry and reveals what they would rather hide. Where was the concern and compassion for her? A baby seal or eagle would be treated with more dignity than a dying human fetus! How insane!

      She fully understood the reality of her decision and that it was her own actions that lead to the death of her baby. For that she is repentant and because of that Jesus has fully 100 percent absolved her of any guilt. Thank you Jesus.

  2. Jennifer Gracey

    is there any way this film can be subtitled in japanese? i have connections to people in the film industry here.
    thanks so much,
    jennifer gracey
    director- the altar IHOP, Tokyo

  3. Michelle

    If this movie saves just one life, Angele’s experience and story will have been worth it. It sounds like an amazing story with a very happy ending where so many other similar stories would have ended horribly with the actual murder of an innocent. The Dear Lord blessed this mother & child with a second chance for a purpose.

  4. Sarah

    Scopia, she was forced into this decision. I heard her story on 510 am from Laura Ingraham on 1/22. It was very sad and touched my heart greatly. I wish her the best and will be praying for her.
    I’ve been trying to post the trailer on myspace and looking up info on this matter more people need to know. And a lot of women don’t really know what is going to happen when they go into these clinics. I would not be suprised if the majority of women out there are forced into having this done. I hope that this story saves many, many lives.

  5. Jan

    This proves the words I live by…We Live (or die) by the Choices We Make

  6. Yet we as a country are now going to fund international abortions. Please pray that President Obama sees this movie and rethinks the Freedom of Choice Act. I would also like to know if this abortion was being paid for by social services/medicaid. I am sick to death of my tax dollars going to pay for these procedures. What is so hard about taking a birth control pill every day. Takes less time to swallow that pill than it does to perform the sex act that causes the pregnancy. God save America!

  7. sam

    is this movie released yet? im 37 weeks pregnant with a little boy right now and i couldnt imagine this!

  8. Dione U

    Reading this makes me sad and angry. I cannot feel sorry for this mother. She did nothing to prevent this pregnancy. She could have not had sex, used birth control or looked into sterilization surgery if she was done having children. Unfortunately many insurances do not cover these options. I think we should be spending our tax dollars more on the prevention of unwanted pregnancies then the clean up of unwanted pregnancies.

  9. Dione U…no one is asking you to “feel sorry” for this mother. The fact that she went to get an abortion was wrong no one disputes this…what happened to her at the clinic was a horror and her story needs to be told because others may chose life when they hear they truth! Thanks for reeading

  10. Hi Guys,

    This is a Really good post about 22 Weeks. I have not seen the movie yet, but it sounds really good. I run a Christian Film Database and from what I’m reading it sounds like it would be ok to List this film on the database. Is there anything in the film that would make me not want to list it???

    Also because all the info you have about the film I made a link to this post if thats ok? Here is were it’s listed…

    http://christianfilmdatabase.com/viewitem.aspx?id=544

    Roger – CFDb

  11. Robbin Morrell

    I watched the trailer yesterday and it is the most relevant film I have seen for some time. I know Rowan will impact “choices” and save lives.

  12. jodie

    What a vile woman. thats all i have to say

    • Jodie,

      Would you have cast a stone when Jesus encountered the woman caught in adultry? The movie clearly condemns abortion…it is murder. But we do not condemn the sinner…we lead them to a Savior whose sole desire is that they choose Him and therefore choose LIFE. All sin even the evil of abortion can be forgiven washed and made white as snow. Lay down that stone and slap some LIFE TAPE across your mouth! LIFE Its a prayer meeting not a protest!

  13. what is wrong with you people? this woman is not “vile” or a “sinner” because she wanted an abortion! she does not need to be “saved” or “condemned” or brainwashed by any of you! this absolutely ridiculous. while i am not ingratiating against the movie itself, you people who are claiming this woman is evil in any way just might possibly be a little crazy. maybe just a little. understand the emotional roller coaster a woman goes through when she wants to have an abortion. it’s not an easy decision! no woman decides to have an abortion just for the heck of it. this woman does not need “jesus’s forgiveness”. more power to her for the harsh experience she went through, and how brave she now is because of it. it’s her choice whether or not she now changes her mind on abortions, just like it was her choice whether or not she should have gotten one in the first place. you go, girl! you don’t need jesus’s forgiveness to feel better about yourself. just be comfortable with your own desicions.

    • mle

      Isabel,
      Your argument is bebased by the actions of millions of women who do NOT in fact see a problem with abortion. If you do not see a problem with stopping a beating heart; there is no “emotional rollercoaster” to ride as you simply don’t give a damn about your actions. One of my friends, God love her as I do, had an abortion at 6 months pregnant because she was angry with her ex-husband. It took her all of half a day to decide. Now she’s pregnant again and it’s like sport hunting for her. Why kill it when it really doesn’t show a response to pain? Let’s just wait until it kicks and moves and naps, swallows, “cries”, sucks it’s thumb..you know all the things a “REAL” baby does. There is nothing glorious or ultra-feminist about murder. Feminism involves having the strength to make a choice you feel is right. Not say Oops, pregnant- guess I’ll have an abortion; as 90% of girls I know have done REGARDLESS of their position at the time.

  14. Isabel,

    Most of the angry comments towards the woman of this movie haven’t actually seen the movie. She is a human being…therefore she does need Jesus’ forgivness that is the core issue of life. Those who’ve had abortions and those who have never all need His forgivness. All sin and any sin separates us from fellowship with God. We all need a revelation of our own sin and weakness and God’s holiness and our need for God. Mankind’s own decisions are exactly what caused the problems we face.

  15. rachel

    so does that mean i need Jesus’ forgiveness as well, even if i’m jewish?

  16. Rachel,

    Jesus is Jewish! I know its easy to forget since so many think He is American (smile thats a joke)! But actually its a historical fact Jesus is Jewish. 2,000 years ago He came as the suffering lamb of Isaiah 53…soon He will return as the Judge & King the Torah has long foretold. He will right all of the wrongs done. Yes, you need Jesus’ blood to cover your sin we all do. Paul the Apostle, a Jewish Scholar and originally a skeptic, was willing to die and go to hell if only his Jewish brothers would believe. See the book of Romans. He endured 3 beatings 39 strips minus one, in order that he could continue to proclaim the truth of Jesus in the synagogues. Read the book of Romans in the New Testament. If you prefer read the book of Isaiah and the Psalms with an eye for Jesus the Suffering Messiah. It is there. Finally pray for an encounter from the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob that G-d would reveal to you if Jesus is the Messiah! You will have a dream!

  17. rachel

    i know that jesus was supposedly jewish. however, we as the jewish people don’t consider jesus as a holy figure, or one whose forgiveness we all need.

  18. Rachel,

    Not sure why you would say “supposedly jewish” no one seriously, jew, muslim, or christian questions Jesus was/is jewish. I completely understand that you don’t look to him as the Messiah or even that you would understand the need for forgivness. If you are a practicing Jew and not simply a cultural jew then you understand the need for forgivness. Yes I understand you do presently see the need for JESUS. There were over 90,000 Jewish Followers of Jesus in Jerusalem within five years of Jesus’ resurrection. C.S. Lewis once wrote Jesus is either a Liar, Lunatic, or Lord! We all have to answer that question, be careful not to answer to quickly. If you ask, seek, and knock you will find the truth. BTW, you can find Yeshua in the Torah. You can find what Jesus said about Himself in the Gospels of the New Testament.

    We have many friends who are in Israel in christian Houses of Prayer, praying for the Jewish people to recognize Jesus. The Apostle Paul had one such powerful encounter. I know

  19. rachel

    these friends of yours should really not be in Israel, trying to encourage the jewish people to recognize jesus. Israel is the one place where jews can gather together and not have other people’s religions shoved down their throats.

  20. Well, the people that live there even the IDF appreciate and value their work, even those who don’t believe. They are serving, loving, and praying for peace. Not standing on a street corner shouting at them. Discussion is not the same as “shoving”. Respecting Jewish culture, faith, and people does not preclude one from living & sharing their christian faith. Yeshua didn’t come to start a new religion, He came to fulfill the words of the prophets…Christianity is Jewish. In fact Christians were known as “the way” not Christians until much later. If truth matters than truth should be discussed. If no one discusses truth how can one know for certain what they believe is true? You and I have had a great discussion I don’t consider our dialogue “shoving my religious beliefs”. We could just as easily be speaking of a movie or fashion…the big difference is that this “truth” impacts us all for eternity.

    Right now in the middle east…Christians are some of Israel’s only friends. The New Testament says that Gentiles will provoke the Jewish people to Faith in Yeshua. Up to this point we’ve done the opposite for sure! To our shame! I believe that one of the significant factors to cause this to happen will be as Arab Muslims become Christians and then willingly lay down their lives to save Israelis. It will be a powerful testimony of Yeshuas transforming love.

  21. rachel

    i am almost certain that the jews in Israel will never believe in a religion other than judaism. if that were to ever happen, it would be a sad, sad day in Israel. there is no doubt that we all have respect for your religion, but do you see us trying to convert you to becoming jewish, or worshipping something against your religion?

  22. All of the writters of the New Testament were Jewish. It never occurred to them that following Yeshua meant giving up their Judaism – their faith or nation. The point is they saw something in Yeshua that lead them to believe He was the long anticipated Messiah. They saw following Yeshua as the fulfillment of the prophets. Today practicing Jews are looking for Messiah to rulee and reign from Jerusalem. Followers of Jesus are looking for His return which will coincide with His ruling and reigning in Jerusalem.

    If religion is simply our culture or our comfort then we should leave everyone to do what feels right to them. If the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob is real and has revealed Himself to the prophets and foretold of things to come, then we should look to know the truth of His words in scripture.

    It is the Glory of God to conceal a matter and the wisdom of kings to search it out!

    As for conversion…the purpose of God choosing Israel was that He would provoke the Gentiles (nations) to jealousy that they (nations) would want to come worship Yaweh. The temple even had a court of the Gentiles so its always been in God’s heart to reach all nations. Abraham was called the Father of many nations. Think of Daniel and King Neb. think of Jonah and a wicked nation Ninevah turns to Yaweh.

    We are not trying to get any Jewish person to worship something that’s against their religion. We are trying to get you to see that 90,000 people in Jerusalem prior to its destruction believed in a resurrected Jesus as Messiah. The apostles knew and if it was simply a lie or fabrication, they would have recanted for something they knew to be a lie. At least one would have. But they all died horrible deaths as witnesses to a resurrected Jesus.

  23. rachel

    So what you’re basically trying to do is make the Jewish people realize that they should be praying to Jesus? I’m just trying to get a feel of what the gist is that you’re saying, without all this extraneous information thrown everywhere.

  24. Actually, we are saying everyone should worship Jesus!

  25. Just because one is Jewish does not mean they should automatically dismiss the claims of JESUS without searching for themselves. That’s the message. There are 5 to 6 million Jews in Israel. Out of the 5 mnillion plus in Jerusalem most are non-practicing or secular Jews. 10,000 to 15,000 are Messianic Jews (Believers in Yeshua). They are surronded by 250 million Muslims who want to kill them. The 15,000 Christians in Israel, many are Israeli citizens are not enemies of the Jewish faith.

  26. rachel

    so, just because there are millions of muslims who want to kill the jewish people for not worshipping jesus, we should change our views in order to accommodate their beliefs?! is that what you are saying?

  27. rachel

    did you know the jewish people are the only ones who don’t encourage others to convert to our religion? we are perfectly happy with whatever everyone else wants to believe in/worship, and quite frankly, you should be, too. honestly, everything you’re saying in this blog is kind of giving christianity a bad name. you’re making it seem as though christianity= acceptance of only one belief, the belief in jesus. as though anything else besides that is just plain wrong.

  28. Rachel,

    You said “so, just because there are millions of muslims who want to kill the jewish people for not worshipping jesus, we should change our views in order to accommodate their beliefs?! is that what you are saying?”

    Not at all the muslims hate Jews because of anti-semitism. Not because you don’t accept Jesus. My point is simply in the middle east the Jews only friend is the Christian and maybe the occassional capitalist but they will sell out for oil.

  29. Rachel,

    I agree there are not Jewish Evangelistic meetings. I’ve know of the Jewish Billy Graham. Have you read your scriptures? Yaweh, clearly is not “tolerant”. All religions do not lead to Yaweh. There was in fact a “court of the gentiles” in the temple and this was to allow gentiles to come to Yaweh. It is clear in scripture that Israel was to provoke the Nations to know Yaweh.

    It would appear as though you are confusing “acceptance of other beliefs” as in lets coexist, with the idea all roads lead to Yaweh. I will gladly live in community with people of other faiths, people absolutely have personal choice. I am happy that their is freedom of religion in America. In my own family are people whom I love dearly that would describe themselves as Bhudists, New Age, Mormon’s, Jehovah’s Witness and Athiests, I love them all and seldom discuss our faith unless they chose to bring it up.

    However, the Jewish scriptures are clear, Bhudda, Mohamed, and others do not lead to Yaweh. That serving any other god leads to sheol, death, the grave, hell.

    For Christian’s who accept the writtings of the New Testament….Jesus’ own words claim that He is the only way to Yaweh. He also commanded that we go and tell the good news. If people chose to ignore, deny it, doubt it…move on to the next person. But be a witness…what does a witness do? Tell what they know to be true.

    Rachel at the end of the day you are free to believe whatever you chose. We would be good neighbors. My whole point in all of our dialogue really has been that, I believe and many other do too, that you can be both a good Jew and a Christian too. That many Jewish people have accepted Yeshua as Messiah and that alone should cause every Jew to personally ponder who Yeshua is.

  30. Andrea

    How stupid. Abortion is population control. Pro choice all the way. No man ever tell me what I can and can’t do with my body or I am going to chopping off some dicks. You cut off my reproductive options… I’ll cut yours off. F?!# the Christians!!!

  31. Andrea chose to use profanity to persuade us with her intelect. Send her an email and let her know you are praying for her. andi_red19@yahoo.com

  32. mother

    abortion in the first trimester is completely different than aborting in the second trimester. Yes a life is a life no matter which “trimester” it is, but second trimester abortions are cruel and i cannot believe any of this is even legal. Who could pity this woman? I am glad she was forced to see what she did. That poor baby. I love how it is expressed that she “tried to sooth him and keep him warm” blah blah… when she is trying to take legal action because he didn’t come out already dead!!! I cannot believe you are ok with her calling herself a christion prior to this event… She chose to murder that child. If someone shot someone in the head, but then cradled their body and called for help they would be put in jail and kept their… for murder… This whole website/movie is sick. And anyone saying this was a good thing with good results is sick too.

  33. The Pro-Choicers will hate this because it uncovers that abortion is not about choice, abortion is about killing innocent unborn children.

    It’s a sad reflection on society that the masses have been duped about what abortion actually is but this shows how effective the propaganda has been. Abortion is big business, with doctors getting wealthy from an abominable practice.

    And speaking of choices, women have other choices if facing an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion is not the only “choice.”

  34. personally it is a good thing to have socitey see what it is doing and I dont say what she did was right by any means but she felt pain and she did want it to be humain despite the fact that there is no humain abortion she was inorant about abortion and it was a tough choice for her to make with her being a christian woman she also chose to put her own life at risk and her health at major risk to try to make sure her unborn son didnt feel pain I believe god wanted her to make a bond with the child and that God sent rowan to be a hero and to show america and the rest of the world what abortion and these money hungry clinics are doing it is so sad to see this and I pray that Rowan and his family gets the justice they deserve God bless the little baby boy hero Rowan

  35. excuse my spelling ignorant I am deeply sorry about that again God bless Hero Rowan 🙂 He is in my prayers as well as his family

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